The blog for the radioshow and podcast http://geekspeak.org/
A listener wrote:
Greetings! I love your show and always learn something from listening and am entertained at the same time; keep up the great work! However, I have to suggest that you read the article (which I am including a link to) because of statements which you’ve made about vaccines and vaccination in general. I send this article not as a definitive treatise on the subject, but more as a starting point for your own education. For the sake of having an open mind, I encourage you to suspend what you may have already learned for a moment as you read this article and, most importantly, be willing to look into what is stated in the article and to do your own research about the points made (and by doing your own research I don’t mean to ask your doctor, I mean to look at actual research). It is not a long article, but summarizes much of what I and many others have found to be true over decades of independent investigation and personal experience. Here is the link to the article: http://www.livingwhole.org/a-parents-response-to-the-new-york-times-article-eliminate-vaccine-exemptions/
And Miles responded:
I wasn’t on the show panel this morning, but I’ll weigh in anyway with points from the rebuttal you posted.
“…it has been decided and upheld by the United States Supreme Court on numerous occassions that parents’ have the right to the care, custody, and control of their children, freedom to rear their children without government interference, the freedom of expression and religion, freedom of privacy, and protection under the first, ninth, and 14th amendments.”
And yet SCOTUS does allow for parents to be prosecuted for failing to give medical attention to their children, and that religious beliefs are not an exemption from providing said medical intervention.
There are indeed limits in our society to personal beliefs as they relate to our children. There are indeed no absolute rights afforded by the Constitution and Bill of Rights, as everything has an exception, like yelling fire in a crowded theater trumping the 1st.
“What about those of us who are subjected to virus shedding on a daily basis by those individuals who have chosen to vaccinate?”
This quote piqued my curiosity as I had not heard of it happening as often as portrayed here. So I looked it up, and found this peer-reviewed study from The Journal of Infectious Disease (http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/204/suppl_1/S549.full):
“…secondary spread from measles-infected 2-dose vaccinees to other susceptible individuals has not been documented. No evidence of viral shedding was seen in a laboratory study of asymptomatic or mildly ill vaccinated contacts of persons with measles…”
So I looked further and found this CDC reference for annual flu vaccines (http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/nasalspray.htm):
“Data indicate that both children and adults vaccinated with nasal spray can shed vaccine viruses after vaccination, although in lower amounts than occur typically with shedding of wild-type influenza viruses. Rarely, shed vaccine viruses can be transmitted from vaccine recipients to unvaccinated persons. However, serious illnesses have not been reported among unvaccinated persons who have been infected inadvertently with vaccine viruses.”
And this brings me to my main point: whenever you and I who are not doctors nor medical researchers want to find information, we must find data gathered by someone else. Invariably I find that people that are for vaccination typically cite doctors and medical researchers while those that feel that vaccines are either ineffective or harmful typically cite people with less medical training such as this individual on “livingwhole.org” who treat anecdotal evidence on the same level as data.
Can you find evidence for harm in a peer-reviewed journal as opposed to a blog on a site with “conspiracy,” “alternative,” “natural,” or something similar in the domain name?
To accept that vaccines are ineffective or harmful is to assume a vast conspiracy of pediatricians—people who have literally dedicated their lives to the health and well-being of children, often accumulating both great monetary as well as sleep debt as a result—to ignore the available evidence for the sake of a quick buck and at the expense of children. In other words, one must accept that they have violated their own highest principles en masse. This is ignoring the vast numbers of medical researchers and doctors in other fields who apparently seem in on it with the evil Big Pharma.
It’s a leap I’m not prepared to take, and it’s partly due to sites like the one you linked to, which seem all to blithe in posting wildly false or blatantly misleading information. From that article:
“You see, vaccines are not research effective because they are not subjected to double-blind placebo controlled studies using a saline solution that is the standard for evidence-based medicine.”
This is just barely true to sucker people into believing it. It is true that two vaccines will be evaluated side by side. It is NOT true however that there have never been double-blind, placebo-controlled studies on the effectiveness of vaccines. Every vaccine for a major illness like measles, polio, etc. had to go through rigorous evaluation (including the double blind) and compared in large numbers to populations without active vaccine. This is widely documented, the methodology available to anyone that looks for it, and it frankly incenses me whenever I see popular sites spout otherwise either out of ignorance or their own interests.
Switching gears, the article also talked about the drop in death rate for measles two decades prior to the introduction of the vaccine. This is true. The best way to avoid death from a measles infection is heavy hydration and medical intervention when things get serious, amenities much more available with the rise of the middle class in the US. What the chart and the article didn’t mention was that measles has far more possible outcomes than death and good health. These include but are not limited to deafness, brain damage, and paralysis. Indeed, partial or total paralysis was not just for polio.
Had the article you linked been honest, they would have shown that the rates of these other complications had not dropped anywhere near as precipitously. This is because measles, polio, and other serious virus infections have no active treatment; you have to wait for it to run its course. So while you can treat the symptoms like pneumonia or severe dehydration, you can’t make measles infections shorter. In short, it’s not just about deaths, and anyone who says different is likely selling something or has accepted it without any question.
The saddest truth of all is that we’re on the same side. We all want to stop vaccinations. In fact had it not been for Dr. Wakefield and his profit motivated fraud equating vaccinations with autism, measles would likely have been eradicated in the western world within 15 years. Gone. No more measles. No more need for a vaccine.
Smallpox didn’t disappear because of laughable notions like “natural immunity.” It was wiped out by a constant barrage of vaccinations. And now we no longer have to take smallpox vaccines. We are so very close to wiping out polio. Unfortunately its resurgence in war- and poverty-stricken regions threatens to reintroduce it to previously clear nations. And in those nations like Germany, where polio vaccinations are commonly ignored, a single infected refugee from Syria could do tremendous damage.
Yes, the list of possible side effects is frightening. It’s just too bad the “other side” isn’t as willing to enumerate their own even more frightening list of side effects.
Miles Elam Co-host GeekSpeak
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